Lost Respect

[Rain]

I wouldnt think that John would have done that, it's just sick. But I don't think differently of John cause I love him too much

[CrowDish]

I read that a while ago, affected me a lot at the time. I'm not sure if the story itself is exactly true - like Kermit said, even if you read the introduction of that book, it says that some things in it are not exactly true, and the author took a lot of liberties in it - but if something similar to it happened, I wouldn't be too surprised. It seems like that's how it often was in the beginning - being a rock star isn't as glamourous as people might think, and mistakes are made (and often, remade, and remade.) But I agree with Kermit. Although John wasn't the best person in the world -when he was young-, he was trying. ("I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved.. Man, I was mean but I'm changing my scene and I'm doing the best that I can") And when he got older, he did a lot of things that helped a lot of people - maybe he wasn't as happy as he made himself out to be and I used to hold that against him, but the point is, he can't help that. And he still made a lot of difference.

-sigh- I think it's time to address something I've been putting off for a while.

I have spent a lot of time and energy being mad at John for not being a good father to Julian. And he wasn't. Nobody can deny that he wasn't. But it's not worth it. Julian held a lot of spite towards him, because it was hard (and I understand it was hard) to see his father preach about love and peace, when he didn't even get that from him as his son. And it was wrong. But you know what? People make fucking mistakes. I feel really bad for Julian being stuck in that whole ordeal, especially as a kid, and I would change it if I could. But I can't, and I'm not going to hold spite towards someone I love so much, who did so much good for the world as a whole, and gave so many people so much hope. John was human, just like us, and he tried to change. When he was young, he was cruel to women - when he was old, he fought for women's rights. When he was young, he was a bad father (to Julian) - when he was old, he didn' t make the same mistake with Sean, and at the same time, he was trying to fix his relationship with Julian. (He was trying, I heard it out of Julian's mouth.) Unfortunatley, right when they were getting back to the point of having a good relationship, someone else (named Chapman) intervened. Obviously not John's fault at all. And either way, as much as I love Julian, I can't speak for him, I can only speak for myself, and John helped me, a lot, and inspired me to try and help others. There was good and bad in John, but I think we need to try and look at the good, like we do (or at least should do) in others. We've just thought of John as such a saint for so long, we've forgotten he's really just a person.

[Zap]

I'm afraid that...no matter how terrible that apparently 'real' image is in my head, no respect is lost for Mr. Lennon from me.

John was one of the most popular men in the world, and he hated it. He would have gone crazy if he couldn't...do what he wanted.

I am only mad at John for the things that have been proved. "How Do You Sleep" for instance, the shitty job he did with Julian, and many other things.

I'm sure that if you looked hard enough in books and on the net, the other three have done some pretty bad shit themselves. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop loving and respecting them.

[lookingthroughyou]

When I read that, I was shocked, but I mean...it's almost part and parcel of being a beatles fan. you have to admit that they were, lets face it, disgusting with the fans. I mean, they could have ANYTHING they wanted. yes, it's rape, but...

...

[Rain]

to add to what i said before, i dont think that its true. It just doesnt seem correct.

[Ashley]

I mean, if it is true...it's not the fact that he did what he did. It's the fact that he flipped out on her and called her a cow. And almost slapped her. That's what upsets me.

[nothingisreal2]

Zap said:

I'm afraid that...no matter how terrible that apparently 'real' image is in my head, no respect is lost for Mr. Lennon from me.

John was one of the most popular men in the world, and he hated it. He would have gone crazy if he couldn't...do what he wanted.

I am only mad at John for the things that have been proved. "How Do You Sleep" for instance, the shitty job he did with Julian, and many other things.

I'm sure that if you looked hard enough in books and on the net, the other three have done some pretty bad shit themselves. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop loving and respecting them.

I completely agree with you, Zap. What you said about How Do You Sleep and Julian, though...I don't think I'm...mad at him for those things. Yes, I acknowledge the fact that he did a shitty job with Julian, and How Do You Sleep was a bit too much. But this is going back to what Crow said. He was human. He made mistakes. The Julian one especially was pretty bad. If he hadn't tried to restart his relationship with Julian towards the end, then yes, I may have been mad at him for it. But since he did...I wouldn't say I'm mad at him for it.

The good often overpowers the bad with me. Yeah, so he's done some bad stuff. But he's done so much more good stuff--and to me, that's what matters.

[lookingthroughyou]

Ashley said:

I mean, if it is true...it's not the fact that he did what he did. It's the fact that he flipped out on her and called her a cow. And almost slapped her. That's what upsets me.

that's true.

[me]

Like I said, he took advantage of a girl who was willing....and we all know there are lots of us, if not all who couldn't resist Mr. lennon if they were in her shoes. The fact that he called her a cow, that's horrible and mean.

[Icee]

Theres no proof she was willing or not, I have read that book over and over, and Kermit, everything in it is correct. I don't hate John, I would never hate John he's my fandom, my idol and I consider myself alot like him, the thing is you all took this the wrong way, I was just trying to say that they werent the perfect guys I made them out to be, I thought nothing sexual of them like that, and so when I was reading it, I received a huge shock.

I agree with you about Julian Crow, but he wasn't the best son you could have either.

[CrowDish]

Oh come now, Julian was a teenager, you can hardly accuse him of being at fault.

[Icee]

Crow, we are teenagers, and we understand..

He repeatedly rang John for money! He was a little rebel too Reeeow.

[CrowDish]

I ask my mum for money all the time! Come on, there are plenty of worse things he could've done.

[Icee]

I dont ask my mum for money each time I talk to her. Just remember there was months they wouldn't talk to each other, and Julian rang to ask for money....

[Emma]

I don't know about that. He was a teenager, I'm sure he was angry at John for his bad parenting in the past, he knew his dad wasn't exactly hurting for money. What better way for John to make up for his bad fatherhood than to give Jules some money?

Believe me, even the most sensible people can fall into that line of thinking. For a year after my parents divorced, all I did when I saw my dad was ask him for money or for him to buy me things. It was like, "Well, if he's not going to be around for me, he might as well give me lots of stuff to make up for it."

As for John... whether or not he finally really fixed everything he'd done wrong in the past is not the point. The point is that he TRIED, and that's what I love about him. And what I love about Yoko, come to think of it, because honestly, I feel that she had a lot to do with some of the changes he made in his life. *shrugs* maybe I'm way off on that, but it just seems that way to me.

As for being shocked about the sex stuff? Don't be. It happened. A lot. And not just with John. As someone said earlier, I'm sure you could find similar stuff on Paul, George, and Ringo. They weren't golden. They were just people confronted with a LOT of temptations and opportunities with very few consequences. I don't think we can hold that against them. We don't have to agree with it, or even be okay with it, but we can't hate them for it. It would be unfair.